Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to Make the Leap, a podcast focused on the many economic hurdles facing college students, lower-income individuals and those striving to move up the social ladder. I'm Brad Constant here with my fellow host, george Graeb. George, what is our topic for today?

Speaker 2: 0:30

Today's podcast is on the intersection of poverty, domestic violence and health. Two percent of women in the US suffer from intimate partner violence annually, with poor and minority women significantly affected. Significantly affected. Existing empirical research has generally found that women who suffer domestic violence experience a host of negative outcomes, including, but not limited to, reductions in earning and poor health. Most estimates of domestic violence in the US come from the National Violence Against Women Survey. Data reveals a lifetime incidence of 25% and suggests that intimate partners are responsible for 75% of all violence against women over the age of 18. Disadvantaged women are at a higher risk of abuse. Women with income below $10,000 annually report rates of domestic violence that are five times greater than those with annual income greater than $30,000. In addition, african American women are at significantly greater risk of violence and are subject to more severe attacks. Also at a greater risk are young women between the ages of 20 and 34, corresponding to the peak childbearing years. Finally, data shows that children of women who are the victim of violence while pregnant suffer worse health at birth.

Speaker 1: 1:48

Thanks, george. I'm excited for this conversation Today. We're again joined by Kristen Beal All right, thank you, kristen.

Speaker 2: 1:56

So we start with the basic of the conversation today. What is domestic violence?

Speaker 3: 2:06

what is domestic violence? Well, domestic violence really incorporates a pattern of abusive behaviors used by one partner to gain power or control over another intimate partner. There's several types that are commonly associated with domestic violence, like physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, financial abuse. Digital abuse is one right now, that is that research shows that is really increasing in rate, along with stalking, and then spiritual abuse. But all of those various forms of abuse have serious, really harmful, harmful effects on women's or victims' well-being.

Speaker 1: 2:46

What are the effects of poverty on domestic violence?

Speaker 3: 2:50

Well, poverty can impact the dynamics of domestic violence and really exacerbate it in several ways. Financial stress can create tension within the household, leading to increased conflict and arguments between these partners, and financial insecurity can also limit access to resources, for example, such as housing or food or healthcare, just really intensifying that stress. Limited resources and options also lead to a lack of affordable housing, for example, legal aid and counseling services, and it can make this challenging then for victims to escape their situation. And certainly that power dynamic should not be downplayed either, where economic disparities within a relationship can be kind of exploited by the abuser to exert their control and manipulate the victim. And then, certainly when we have a conversation about poverty, intersections with other forms of oppression really seem to exacerbate this as well. Individuals facing multiple marginalized identities can really experience compounded barriers to seeking help or even accessing resources too, so then they're once again kind of trapped in that situation, not to mention social isolation or the mental health impacts of their abuse too.

Speaker 2: 4:19

So, kristen, you know there's the data on domestic violence is sometimes difficult to get right Because you get a self-report sometimes. Sometimes you got to go to the police, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. But I think there is a general consensus that one out of four women are going to deal with some form of abuse in their lifetime. There's consensus that women and minority African-American women and women who are poor deal with much, much higher rate of some form of abuse. And outside of the fact that, yes, there's financial pressures, financial stress that happens in these communities, you know what is the the main driver why they're so susceptible to violence from, especially, their partner.

Speaker 3: 5:07

Well, I think there's a couple things that increases their vulnerability to this violence, when talking about poverty especially, but limited resources, that power dynamic that I talked about earlier, but also lack of legal protections and the risk of exploitation. So I'll give you an example where women who might be living in poverty could actually be targeted by traffickers who prey on that economic vulnerability. So trafficking victims are often lured with I'll give you a job or education or a better life, only to ultimately be exploited then through maybe forced labor, sexual exploitation or other forms of abuse. And something that's, of course, near to my heart is limited access to education. Poverty can restrict their access for opportunities for economic empowerment. I think that, too, contributes to their social isolation and inability to really either recognize it as abuse or report it as abuse.

Speaker 2: 6:16

So I don't know if you're keeping up with the news, but today the New York appellate court overturned Harvey Weinstein's verdict. And you know, what I was always struck is what you just talked about a couple of minutes earlier is the power dynamics. You know the power dynamics. You see that in the workplace, you see it at home, you see it, I guess, with movie stars. But why is it so much more profound in poor communities?

Speaker 3: 6:44

I believe that it has to do with the economic disparity really within those relationships, so the power, the one that's in power control, compared to the other partner. And then that disparity then kind of generates this financial dependence on an abusive partner who can really make it difficult for that woman to leave the relationship, or even something simple by taking the first step and asserting their autonomy, because they might fear losing any more financial support or even becoming homeless, careerless, several things, losing their children, even. Any type of situation like that has so many varied aspects of fear from the woman experiencing the, experiencing that exertion of power and control.

Speaker 1: 7:34

George mentioned Harvey Weinstein and that being a huge part of the Me Too movement and that raising awareness of sexual harassment and abuse in the workplace. But I feel like the domestic part, I almost feel like our culture is just so used to it that we don't see it. So how can we start addressing this problem?

Speaker 3: 7:56

I think that it requires a multifaceted approach that looks first to immediate interventions to support those survivors who have experienced abuse and mistreatment, but then also the long-term strategies to address the systemic factors contributing to this kind of inequality and violence. So, like my own experience has been involved in a family shelter, so it's not it's for the whole family who suffers through all of these things. And my initial involvement in this area was to volunteer at a respite center, at a family shelter, because then we gave mostly women the opportunity then for to leave and go meet with support services so that we watch their children or to go to find a job or get additional job training and we watch their children that were accompanying them at the shelter. Legal protections as well not just generating laws against intimate partner violence or stalking or sexual assault, but also making sure that they have access to legal aid and someone that can provide them respite so that the women can go do those kinds of things. And then I myself have been a violence prevention educator in my community and that really started with middle school and high school students. So we began talking about healthy relationships, safe dating, gender equality and nonviolent conflict resolution from a very early age.

Speaker 3: 9:39

So those kids that are in a family that has an abusive situation really are kind of lacking the foundations on how to deal with the conflict, both as a child or being involved in an adult situation. So being involved in prevention and education I think kind of ups the level of their ability to recognize the signs of domestic violence but also how to respond effectively. And I think all of those things I just talked about really stem or should stem from community collaboration, which I think includes law enforcement and government agencies and healthcare providers, social service organizations, even faith-based groups. They also provide a lot of volunteering in those situations as well. So I think learning how to coordinate responses to domestic violence and poverty as well kind of starts at the grassroots level and brings a unique approach to diverse communities rather than just one segment.

Speaker 2: 10:46

So, kristen, when I, when I tried to get prepared for today, you know, trying to get data, data, most of the data you get is through surveys. So, people, there's there's no real like database that you can, you know, look at and feel like, ok, I think I know what the numbers look like. But I can maybe play out two scenarios for you. So if you are already poor, you live in an abusive relationship. Your intimate partner, your significant other, controls the money side of things. You try getting out of that abusive relationship means you're going to actually be even more poor than when you are today. It could even lengthen the amount of time you're poor for who knows how long, because now you're going to be on your own. Versus the limited resources, do you think there is an element like the structure is set up in place for many women not to report it, not to seek help, because it just sometimes exasperate their economic conditions?

Speaker 3: 11:48

Yeah, and I live while I live near a large city, I really live in a rural community, and one of the things that I find in that small community is that the resources to help them are limited. So I've found, if I wanted data, I could at least refer to the social services agencies that I worked with directly. Now, that situation that I'm referring to was this family shelter then, and it's unlimited time there. So, in a situation like you discussed, many places limit how long you can stay there and they don't have the resources to support the family, additional children, and this place even has a barn for pets and animals too, for you to bring them as a part of your family.

Speaker 3: 12:45

But with my volunteering, for example, with that organization, I appreciated it and was much more likely to donate to it, volunteer for it, because they did not have limits that were established on how long they could stay there. So if they were kind of lining up some of those criteria even that we talked about in our last podcast, about making sure you have a safe home, making sure you have the financial resources, making sure you've had education and training the shelter didn't release them until those boxes were ticked off, so they felt a little more comfortable then accessing those resources, allowing themselves to be connected to other resources and then not feel rushed and, frankly, give up and go back home because it was easier, because they couldn't get through the requirements. So this really seemed to me to provide them a little more safety. I felt a little more sure about their safety and they're likely to complete the transition to being on their own.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Look, I don't think being poor automatically make you prone to abuse your partner, but it seems like you can't really deal with domestic violence effectively if you don't deal with poverty. What do you think?

Speaker 3: 14:02

Totally agree. I feel that the poverty piece is the key, especially in abating the violence, because if you work on the poverty piece, you can provide economic independence for women who need some financial autonomy. You can empower them really by boosting their self-esteem and their confidence and really create a sense of agency. You know, having a job allows them to assert their independence and make decisions about their lives and instead of relying on someone who has harmed them who makes decisions for them. Plus, having a role in working on the poverty piece with a job, for example, then gives them greater access to resources too, like an employment position will give them healthcare or housing, allow them to afford housing or child care, and some benefit packages include legal assistance. So something like that is important to that poverty piece. And then financial security well, that just really makes women feel stable in a way that they probably hadn't in a long time.

Speaker 2: 15:16

Before we dive deeper, maybe, into what can be done. You know some of the other pieces that comes with domestic violence is depression, suicide, human trafficking. You know 40% of women who go through domestic violence suffer from depression. You know 2% to 3% commit suicide. The majority of the human trafficking is trafficking of women. It seems it all revolves around poverty, lack of resources and putting people in harm's way. What are the options and alternatives for people who are in a difficult place and an abusive relationship and lack the resources both the financial, economic and the educational resources to get out of it?

Speaker 3: 16:08

Well, I would look first to some comprehensive support services. So this would include providing access and culturally competent support services for survivors. So this would include crisis hotlines. Where I worked as a violence prevention educator, we had a hotline that was included in the portfolio of services that they provided Emergency shelters, for example. But counseling again that culturally competent topic really comes into play offering legal aid and then bolstering health care.

Speaker 3: 16:49

On a crisis intervention kind of perspective, you would want to train people to be culturally responsive when they're responding to a crisis.

Speaker 3: 17:01

So, for example, we might have gotten calls that were somebody in need, but we could.

Speaker 3: 17:06

We would also be able to say here's the extent of the support services that we provide at the social service agency, but let's start working on your connections to the others.

Speaker 3: 17:17

Because, but let's start working on your connections to the others, and I'll give you one small example but sometimes their offender who has harmed them, has taken away their driver's license, or doesn't allow them a credit card, or takes away their cell phone or uses their cell phone to track them so that they're still remain in danger. So if you have a support service team that is meeting those components of it, they can help keep that person safe and many of the support services are connected. So, like my county health department has several of those services that I just talked about, even, but they're connected then with the family shelter and then the family shelter is connected with another social service that's local, but sometimes, because they've isolated themselves, they're not always aware of them. So if they do come to a comprehensive place or a place that provides comprehensive services, then they can be directed to those things that they might have been kept away from or sheltered from.

Speaker 2: 18:28

Do you think you know? If you're an immigrant in the US, if you're poor, if you're subject to human trafficking, do you think our system is actually available to them? It just seems like they're invisible, like we. Really. They don't know how to access a system or how to access help. They don't know how to get help and we're not necessarily that visible in terms of saying, yeah, come to us, we're going to get you some help. They just they seem to be literally out there and they get to suffer the most with the little possible and the safety net isn't really there.

Speaker 3: 19:02

I would agree with that. On the trafficking piece, there's a local organization here in my county that are the type of servants that are on the move. They're looking for people that have been trafficked. They're looking for family members who have, you know, kind of not contracted with them because it's a volunteer, but sent them out to go find their loved ones. They don't advertise very much, you're right, but they put in support networks that they'll advertise in restaurants, bathrooms, gas station bathrooms that say if you're in trouble, reach out here. But also even Dr Phil's wife also has a domestic violence app that when a woman it on, when a woman installs it on her cell phone, it looks like your average news app. However, it's been pre -programmed that once the woman presses the button, it either makes a call to a loved one that says hey, I'm in trouble, or it calls the 911 authority so they can trace their phone. But there are several apps that are like that.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Now you've mentioned your county and local resources. To your knowledge, how integrated are they with something like the National Domestic Violence Hotline? Is it a close integration or is there a disconnect that we need to, as a society, figure out?

Speaker 3: 20:33

So how the agency that I worked for it was called Helpline and they had an 800 number. That was a national number but that worked like a 911 service, so that when someone dialed that 800 number that it would go to the most local hotline, for example, would go to the most local hotline, for example, that was near the caller, and so it might have to take a step to get them help. Might be an extra step or two because it would call into the big one, then be transferred down to the state and then transferred to a local number, but I do think that they work because they're usually comprehensive as well. So, like all those helpline agents that we had I say all of them, but there are maybe 20 of them, but they're all equally trained to say okay, here's what you need to do, safety plan first. Then here's who you call. Do you need a shelter? Do you have someplace you can shelter? Do you need transportation to get you there?

Speaker 2: 21:37

Because they also will do that covertly too to single moms and minorities to be truly impacted the most, or severely impacted the most, with all the issues that we've raised, from education to healthcare.

Speaker 2: 22:06

We talked about foster kids last time you were on, and now we're talking about domestic abuse, and I still think, to a certain extent, that the system ignores their needs. People who come from very challenging backgrounds, really disadvantaged backgrounds, have a unique set of needs, and sometimes these needs start with how to access resources and how to get to these resources, and it all at the center of it is poverty, and so when you think about it, can you maybe, as we wrap this up, talk about how critical it is not only that the resources is there, but how people can find it and access it. And then two job opportunities for women good job opportunities, critical paid leaves that give some opportunities to deal with some of the issues that they are dealing with without losing their job. So wrap it nicely to us about you know how can we do better getting the resources available to them and what can society do in general to give them better job opportunities, including paid leaves?

Speaker 3: 23:11

I feel that in order for them, in order for women who have been in the domestic violence situation, I feel that their ability to access I'm going to put one umbrella under and that is legal advice, to really access legal advice in order to get out of their situation. So it's not just working with a lawyer, but actually understanding their rights and options, because a person who is in a poverty situation and they're stuck there because of the power and control that's exerted over them doesn't always know their rights and then how to even make decisions about getting help. So there are navigating the legal system is a total, another situation as well, or another discussion that's very similar to when we talked about the foster care situation, to the legal advice. If I throw that big umbrella over, it will provide guidance and support for them to navigate their way through these, but they also will provide them opportunities to know how to file police reports, know how to obtain restraining orders, know how to seek legal representation, and all of these, like an 800 number that they might call, will be able to provide them with references to those support networks. So they may start out not by calling a domestic violence hotline, they may start out calling NAMI, n-a-m-i. So it's about mental illness and that's a National Association for Mental Illness, which their 1-800 number really starts to filter back to the state and local level about how they can get assistance. So I'll give you an example.

Speaker 3: 25:09

So a family that is caught up in an abusive situation, the children are witnessing these adverse childhood experiences that are trauma. So they carry their trauma through their life, which may start out very young. They carry it through their life and their healthcare suffers. They're highly unlikely to be employed or highly unlikely to have graduated high school. Their life is affected. So it's just a big circle.

Speaker 3: 25:39

So if you start with the legal part which can protect them, and then if they turn to a mental health resource like NAMI, for example, or like Helpline, where I've worked, then it starts filtering things down to a local level. Then they become, I don't want to say in the system, but working with the system. So asking for referrals for food distribution, for clothing for I know many of our schools offer a clothes closet for interviewing what career services offers. You know interviewing skills and other job skills. So do those social services agencies. So you know, once they start big, then they start narrowing down to the places that can help them. And if they go to the legal route first and then the mental health route, the legal route really kind of firms their ability to get secure emergency housing and arranging for child custody visitation and accessing community resources, but the legal system then seems to drive them through to the county level or local level.

Speaker 2: 26:55

Thank you. Thank you, kristen. I think we all have learned that poverty impacts women, impacts single moms and impacts women of color more than we know and more than the general population. But really the intersection between domestic violence and poverty can only exasperate the problem. It seems to make it longer, deeper and more painful, and hopefully we can, as there's a lot of nonprofits that work in the field. But hopefully one of the ways would be to give women going through domestic abuse career opportunities and the economic empowerment to get a job where they can get themselves not out of just the abuse part but also the economic struggles. To get a job where they can get themselves not out of just the abuse part but also the economic struggles that they counter. Thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker 3: 27:44

Pleasure. Thank you for letting me discuss this really important issue.

Speaker 1: 27:58

Thanks for listening to Make the Leap. Be sure to visit our site, rosspodcastcom or the podcast platform of your choice to listen to past episodes as well as subscribe, so you never miss future episodes. We hope you join us two weeks from now for our next episode as we learn more about bridging the digital divide meeting students where they are. See you then, thank you.